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Author Topic: Best sensor to use in a gun safe?  (Read 2389 times)
smiticans
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« on: Nov 29, 11, 07:59PM »

Within the next few weeks I'm going to be upgrading my system to a vista 20p and planning on adding my gun safe to the system. The safe I have is similar to the Stack-on Model # GCG-14P

I was thinking about using the Ademco miniature surface contacts or the ademco recessed plunger switch. Does anyone have any suggestions on the best way to set this up? The sensor will be wired since and I'm not worried about drilling a hole in the safe since it's not fire resistant anyway.

Thanks!

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« Last Edit: Nov 29, 11, 08:36PM by admin » Logged
DEL Installations
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« Reply #1 on: Nov 30, 11, 05:38PM »

Personally, from a security standpoint, I would go with a balanced magnetic contact installed properly, with the pry tamper and other items of the contact being installed properly, and technically speaking, I'd also think about tampering the JB the contact runs back to.

I would not use a plunger type switch, and if you are not considering a balanced type, I would look into, as a minimum, an armored type of contact.
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smiticans
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« Reply #2 on: Nov 30, 11, 07:22PM »

Thanks for the Response!

As of right now it looks like I'll be using the Amseco BMC-33B High Security Balanced Contact. I don't believe this one has a pry tamper however the other models that do are a little pricey. I'm not that worried about them tampering with it too much because the chances are by the time they even make it to the safe the alarm will be going off anyway. I guess ill have to put the EOL resister inside the junction box and put a tamper on that too.

Can I use any type of contact to tamper the JB? The contact will be inside the box. I'm asking because I don't know if the material the JB is made out of will interfere with the magnet on a regular contact.

Also if you know of any balanced contacts that do have a pry tamper that don't cost $80 to $90 that will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!
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DEL Installations
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« Reply #3 on: Nov 30, 11, 07:30PM »

All of the balanced contacts I know of would have a pry tamper.  A stick on magnetic contact would work fine within the confines of a JB as long as the gap was paid attention to. The contact and JB would be installed outside of the safe.

Unfortunately, a balanced contact, what you see is what you get, and IMHO, even though you believe a system would alarm prior to someone getting to a high risk item, generally, I err on the side of safety. If the safe were contained within a room that was not able to be compromised easily, that would be a different story.
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Electronics usually don't work as intended once the magic smoke is released from them

I'd like to be called sir at least once without being followed with "you're making a scene"
smiticans
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« Reply #4 on: Nov 30, 11, 07:50PM »

The data sheet for the Amseco one didn't mention anything about a pry tamper but ill look into it.

Yea I would hope the alarm would sound before they got to the safe since they would have to get past the window sensors, shock sensors and motions, but nothing is fool proof. That's why I want to protect the safe and use total connect so I can get a text message if the safe is open.

Thank you for your help!!
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DEL Installations
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« Reply #5 on: Nov 30, 11, 07:58PM »

A HSC1 and a P2 both have a pry tamper circuit.

Keep in mind, unless you have enough space to mount the contacts in the same plane as well as with about 1/4" separation (nominal) you are going to need the brackets as well.
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Electronics usually don't work as intended once the magic smoke is released from them

I'd like to be called sir at least once without being followed with "you're making a scene"
smiticans
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« Reply #6 on: Nov 30, 11, 08:16PM »

I'm most likely going to need those brackets unless I mount the contact on the outside of the safe.
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DEL Installations
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« Reply #7 on: Nov 30, 11, 09:20PM »

The contact is designed to be mounted outside of the safe, nature of the beast. The only requirement is the contact and magnet need to be in the same plane as well as within the distance spec of the contact....too close, it won't work, too far, same thing.

Unless you have a military weapons vault that you can stand inside and work, it's not going to be installed on the inside. I've put in lots of them on the outside of safes and vaults, not to mention the aforementioned weapons vaults and other rooms.

You need to be able to connect the contact to a meter while you are installing it and the magnet.
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Electronics usually don't work as intended once the magic smoke is released from them

I'd like to be called sir at least once without being followed with "you're making a scene"
Jay13
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« Reply #8 on: Dec 01, 11, 08:37AM »

I know you are thinking of a wired approach, but I did mine with two magnetic contacts, one epoxied on the surface of the door (very obvious) and one on the botoom back of the safe with the magnet recessed into a tiny hole in the drywall (not so obvious).  That way if the door is opened or the safe is moved, I get an alert on my phone. 

It's primarily to monitor the safe from kids/contractors when the system is unarmed.  If a thief is in my house and has found my gun safe without triggering the alarm when it is in armed mode, then by that point I have bigger prolems.
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DEL Installations
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« Reply #9 on: Dec 01, 11, 05:28PM »

The issue I would have with that is the switch and wiring (or transmitter) could easily be subject to compromise while someone may be working or legitimately working in the house...or scoping things out for later.

We've had that happen in commercial and residential installs prior, and honestly, an armed partition, with a BMS going to a handybox with a keyswitch that controls a separate partition that is 24 hours would be my solution. IMHO, security on any weapons storage should be more than a simple traditional contact (or two).
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Electronics usually don't work as intended once the magic smoke is released from them

I'd like to be called sir at least once without being followed with "you're making a scene"
smiticans
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« Reply #10 on: Dec 01, 11, 06:10PM »

I agree with DEL Installations in that aspect.

When you say I need to connect the contact to a meter while I'm installing it, is it to make sure it's lined up properly? If that's the case I can just wire it up to the panel I have laying in my room to make sure the contacts are properly lined up.
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mark2215
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« Reply #11 on: Jan 10, 12, 05:53PM »

I know you are talking about wired sensors but I put a 5816 in each of my gun safes.  The safes are on a separate zone that is always armed even if the rest of the house is disarmed.  The sensors are mounted on the inside of the door.  This system works great for me and was not difficult to install.
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DEL Installations
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« Reply #12 on: Jan 10, 12, 07:08PM »

Given the nature of a normal safe's construction, which typically contains both thick steel and normally concrete or similar, RF devices located within the inside of a safe is asking for problems.

No offense, but I'd say you got really lucky with reliability.
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Electronics usually don't work as intended once the magic smoke is released from them

I'd like to be called sir at least once without being followed with "you're making a scene"
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